BK: Anne-Marie Pellegrin, your expression number (the one that expresses your personality ) is the 7. Seeker of truth, attracted by the spiritual, the mystical but also very rational, gifted for science and deduction. Does this portrait suit you?
AMP: Yes. Partially. It’s a bit reductive. My expression number is 7 but as with all numbers, you have to understand where it comes from. The 7 can be obtained by 16 (1+6), 25 (2+5), or 43 (4+3)… All of this has a different symbolism!
BK: Why partially?
AMP: It is necessary to put this number of expression in perspective with the numerological chart of the person concerned as well as with all the other numbers and the grid of letters * as it is called.
BK: The origin of the number you say?
AMP: The expression number is the addition of all the letters of the first and last name. Each letter has a numerical value (A=1, B=2, etc.) and when you add them via what is called the theosophical reduction (sum of the digits of the number) it gives 25 or 34… It is not the same thing !
BK: If we had to sum you up in 3 digits. What would they be and why?
AMP: 3, 5, 7. 3 is my life path, it happens to suit me very well (laughs). 3 is curiosity, communication, creativity in all its forms; it can be plethoric (not especially my case by the way). 5 is important in my numerology chart, I also feel very comfortable with this 5!
BK: Ah, is 5 very particular?
AMP: All numbers are particular. It depends on how these are positioned in your theme. One must always take into account the first and last names, the ‘intimate’ number, the number of expression… And then there is the reduction of vowels & consonants (let’s not go into detail) and the letter grid. It is necessary to determine which numbers are represented or not in your letters. Not all of them are necessarily present, there are often absent numbers, what are called karmic numbers. For example, you have people who will have three or four “1”s in their first name/surname and others who will not have any at all…
To come back to the 5, it can be over domineering, chaotic or even absent from the theme, which can change the whole situation, the interpretation!
BK: Digit/number? You use them interchangeably, yet a digit is not a number.
AMP: Digits are used to compose numbers, digits are unique. We use one for the other, the other for one. It’s an abuse of language, but that’s how it is.
BK: What is numerology? A para-science? A divinatory art? Nonsense?
AMP: An art of the human sciences, with a certain “philosophy” allowing the hidden aspect of numbers to be revealed. Whether you believe it or not, it doesn’t matter. To the skeptics, I tell them: keep your skepticism or find out for yourself! Everyone is perfectly free to believe what they want. I’m not trying to convince anyone. Curious, open or skeptical? It is totally up to you.
BK: You have been counselling individuals and businesses for over 25 years. How did you come to numerology?
AMP: It has been a very long journey. I went to see a numerologist in the United States a very long time ago, then it slipped my mind. 10 or 15 years later, I consulted a reputable numerologist in Paris out of curiosity; my future did not concern me particularly. He said to me: “One day miss, you will do what I do”. He was an intelligent man; he suggested two philosophy books on numbers. I then explored this universe on a personal basis, but not at all to do something with it. I had a very hectic professional life. At some point I wanted to settle. To distract myself, I decided to understand how the numerology I call “operational”, that is to say outside philosophy, worked. How it could apply in the life of an individual. This is how I started to build numerological charts. I exercised on friends. I felt very comfortable, it continued, grew, sparked interest. It came gradually. My clientele has only come from word of mouth. I have never advertised. It is a journey based on my choices and my need for freedom. This need is in the 5 and the 7, but especially in the 5!
BK: An IFOP study (February 2020) reports that ¼ of French people have already consulted a specialist (26%) at least once during their life, including 18% for astrology, 14% for clairvoyance, 10 % for cartomancy, and 6% for numerology. Why this relatively low percentage for numerology? Ignorance? Skepticism?
AMP: Numerology was talked about later than astrology. Little by little it’s getting there.
BK: Do you use these disciplines in addition to numerology?
AMP: Everyone has their own way of working, with their assets, their potential, their techniques and sensitivity. I do not mix these disciplines even if I respect them. I am all about numbers, and if I happen to use the tarot cards, it’s for their numbers. It is up to the consultant to bridge all these disciplines. Their association can help put things in their place or at their right time.
BK: Many contemporary thinkers denounce the “tyranny of numbers” (excessive quantification) or even “governance by numbers” (extreme manipulation/performance) which dehumanize us. What do you think of the way our societies conceive/use digits and numbers?
AMP: We are just numbers. We are born on such a day, at such an hour, we weigh so much, measure so much; a social security number is assigned to us… Humans need this rationality to translate and explain the world in a concrete way. A step before being able to move on to the spiritual I imagine. But Humans can also move beyond this materiality and become something else. Thanks to the symbolic dimension of numbers. They have incredible potential. An infinite dimension. For mathematicians, it is an art. Just look at astronomy and astrophysics, enough to make you dizzy!
Sure numbers can be manipulated. This is the negative side, as with everything.
BK: Do digits/numbers have their own system of meaning? Their own ecosystem ? How and why?
AMP: They have their world. Each number has its symbols. Its own qualities and defects. They are masculine, feminine, peer, odd…
BK: What do they have to tell us? Are they talking? What is their grammar?
AMP: They have their own grammar, tone, color, general sense, positive or negative. What do they have to tell us? They explain to us who we are, what we can do thanks to them, how to understand the world. Their range of possibilities is endless. Whatever we do – research, arts, architecture – it goes through numbers. Numbers speak for ourselves if we know how to look into them. We can not do without.
BK: And you? Do you live with numbers?
AMP: I live very naturally on a daily basis, I am absolutely not obsessed with numbers! I may pay more attention to numbers than you. I look at the numbers of the day, it allows me to decode the multiple interpretations of a figure, or of two or 3 figures together.
BK: Do numbers have a gender?
AMP: Absolutely. They are feminine, masculine. The 2, feminine is more ‘sensitive’, softer than the 1 masculine for example. Moreover, when you pronounce “1”, you feel the dynamic impulse! The science of numbers defines the gender of numbers by the way.
BK: Are there asexual numbers?
AMP: Some are neutral. Like 7 or 5 for example…
BK: Are numbers synesthetic?
AMP: Absolutely. They can be associated with an animal, a plant, mineral, a letter of the alphabet, a planet, the zodiac. They also have a musical correspondence. This comes from what is called arithmosophy (science of numbers/ numbers wisdom), which was the subject of treatises this, a very long time ago.
BK: If I tell you that for me 9 is blue? How to code colors and numbers?
AMP: You have the right to feel it as blue. That said, in terms of color, there are different associations depending on the treaties. 9, for example, is Saturn, it is time. Rather a dark color. It will be dark brown for some, dark blue for others, or black.
BK: What type of companies do you counsel? What sort of problems do you tackle?
AMP: Rather SMEs. And these are not necessarily problems. People always think that one consults someone because one has a problem. No. One may have decisions to take, choices to make. Am I considering investments? Do I develop new perspectives? Hire ? Expand abroad? When is the best time of year to open a branch? All topics related to running a business.
BK: Your website mentions “discretion”. Why this particular mention? Isn’t it self-evident? Is the use of numerology by a company potentially controversial? Why should a company not be entitled to consult a numerologist in the same way as a McKinsey or a Cap Gemini?
AMP: No, that is not self-evident. It is not taboo but there are people who talk about it very easily and openly, others who have a more discreet approach. Businessmen/women are totally rational. They usually tell me: “I don’t understand how it works, but it works! » . That’s all they see: they invested at the right time, hired the right person, etc. It’s operational. What they want is concrete. I do not go into the technical numerological details. I do forecasting. I give them a precise weather report with which they can do what they want. It is an additional tool, a perspective. They usually consult me twice a year or when there is an opportunity / event requiring to take action.
BK: What is the morphotype of your customers?
AMP: My clientele is very diverse. This can be senior executives of large companies traveling the world from right to left, self-employed people, people from liberal professions, but also employees or people living in the countryside with their small business. Ordinary and extraordinary.
BK: In your opinion, should certain digits/numbers be used in particular and why?
AMP: In the choice of a company name, a nickname, a sign or shop it is interesting; It also depends on the field of activity. On the other hand if you want to start a company, there are certain days when you should not do it. This day must correspond to a real dynamic for the company. You might not launch it on a 9 but rather on a 1… Not on a 4 either. If you do something in research, the 7 is welcome, but any business also needs a bit of 8, power and money. Again, there is no definitive answer to this question. It depends on the context and what is expected of it.
BK: What are the numbers with an overrated reputation? What digit would benefit from coming out of the shadows/restore its image?
AMP: A number on which we should dwell is 7. Because people always think that the number 7 – number acclaimed by a majority of them – is the ultimate. However, this is not an easy number. It is called the number of God, it’s the number of knowledge certainly, but knowledge or madness? The 7 can also be “anything”. There are always two dimensions….
A number with a bad reputation: 4. In Chinese, 4 also means death. Yet the 4 is the solidity, the earth, the base that we install. Absolutely imperative if you want to build something. It’s work but it can also be laziness (laughs). The 4 is a powerful energy -sometimes contained- in connection with something thoughtful, sober, meticulous, persevering. 4 is not always very sensitive or is apparently not very sensitive. It’s discreet.
BK: Let’s talk about communication strategy. Some brands use digits/numbers in their communication territory (naming, etc.). What do you think numbers bring to a brand identity and how should they be exploited?
AMP: It can be very positive. Take Chanel No. 5. The 5 is communication, curiosity. The 5 is a vector of a lively, moving energy. It’s Mercury and the symbol of adventure without borders. Chanel N°5 still exists since 1921!
BK: My brand is called 2 rue Saint-Georges. What do you think the 2 brings? Should it be changed to 5 😊?
AMP: The 2= the relationship with others, sharing, sensitivity, finesse, analysis. A sensitive, intuitive, imaginative energy with the possibility of collaboration. But that’s not necessarily ideal for a communication company. Because with the 2, we are more in emotion than in action.
BK: So 9 rue Saint-Georges 😊?
AMP: No, I don’t trust the 9! 9 is time, absolutely not fast. Rather, 3, 5, 8 or even 1? But we must of course take into account the translation of rue Saint-Georges into numbers…
BK: 2 rue Saint-Georges that’s 2 + 75= 77 so 7+7=14 so 1+4=5, there you go!
BK: Does the symbolism of digits/numbers vary according to culture? Should this be taken into account in your interpretation work?
AMP: That is true. Each culture has its symbolism of digits and numbers, its traditions. I stick to the European symbolism used worldwide.
BK: We live in a hyper complex and chaotic world. What role for numerology? Can it help us rethink it?
AMP: Yes! Digits/numbers can help us rethink it. Anyway we don’t have any other choice : the world has changed a lot since the 2000s. Passage from 1 to 2! The dynamic is no longer the same. A lot of antagonisms, differences, we get along or we don’t get along… . the 2 is the agreement, the partnership, the relationship with others. Do we agree with each other or do we fight? And our differences? A plus or a minus? In this year for example where there were a lot of 2, 2022, it was tense. There are difficulties… choices that will have to be made. If we manage to understand their symbolism and what they invite us to do, yes, the numbers have a role to play. But it is difficult.
BK: There is still a lot of time till we move on to 3!
AMP: A while yes.
BK: What will be 2023 number for the world? What does this number say? What should we do with it?
AMP: The number of the year 2023 is 7. Which invites us to rethink everything with intelligence and relevance. It is the number of humanity, of the initiate. The 7 carries a mental energy that incites us to be interested in the why. With questions relating to the meaning of the world, its balance and its imbalance. 7 is a think tank.
BK: Yet the year 2022 was a year 6. Isn’t the 6 a symbol of harmony and concord?
AMP: The 6 is the wise counselor or the intolerant. As I said, digits and numbers have their positive and negative aspect. What influences the positive/negative? All the parameters of a theme.
But we should not be dependent on all this ; rather use this knowledge in a way that is both flexible and concrete. You also have to know how to take a step back, let intuition and personal feeling intervene.
BK: Anne-Marie Pellegrin, thank you again for this moment!
AMP: Thank you !
Books by Anne-Marie Pellegrin
The numbers of numerology, Albin Michel
The numbers of love, Albin Michel
The letters grid